Four Kitchens

The Future of Content episode 28: Being Seen, Heard, and Remembered

31 Min. ReadDigital strategy

Key ideas

  • Marketing your content or promoting your business through social media is good, but it’s not enough.
  • Share useful and valuable content that shows consumers you have products and services related to the content.

Some of us are most comfortable in the background or in the shadows, but author and speaker Mildred Talabi believes in the intersection of visibility and women. She founded The Visible Women Tribe to be a community of women in business who are committed to being seen, heard, and remembered for all the right reasons. 

Most of us, if not all of us, fight against imposter syndrome over the course of our career, which can cause us to shrink, find comfort being in the background, and make us reluctant to put ourselves “out there.” It makes us ask ourselves, “Are we good enough? Are we smart enough? Do we really have what it takes to do the job we were hired to do?”

When it comes to services that require our full and unique voice, like content creation and production, we need to lean on our skill and expertise.

In my previous background, I was a journalist, and one of the things that we did when we were sourcing people to feature as experts—people get this idea that it’s the person who’s most knowledgeable that gets called to do the interviews on TV and in papers, but it’s actually the one who’s most visible. When you’re visible, your perception as an expert really increases, so you’re remembered for all the right reasons.

There are three types of content to use to engage your target audience: professional, personal, and promotional. Professional content demonstrates your expertise and knowledge in a specific area and is the content that helps salespeople do what they do best: sell. Professional content should be the bulk of your content.

Personal content allows others to get to know you as a person when you do content marketing and ties in perfectly with the idea of social selling. It’s a great way to build trust with your audience.

Promotional content (email newsletters, webinars, exclusive products or content, etc.) is a must for any business. It gives your audience the opportunity to feel like they’re participating in what your business is doing. 

A lot of women are afraid to just show up and be yourself. Here’s what happens when you’re at work. For example, if you have a job title, you can hide behind that job title. So you can show up on LinkedIn as an employee for whichever company that is. And that’s OK. That’s manageable. But when you’re now in business for yourself, especially when you have a business where you’re a coach or a consultant and you’re the face of your company, there’s no hiding.

Your content doesn’t need to be dry or boring or academic in order to reflect your business or experience. It doesn’t even have to be formal; it only has to appeal to and reach both your target audience and your current users. Always remember that you’re speaking to and trying to connect to other people and their needs. 

You’re speaking to the problems and frustrations they’ve faced and offering your solutions, but you’re speaking in a way that makes them the focus, not your business or solution. So the vocabulary that you use in your content should resonate with your target audience because that’s how you build a connection and relationship with them.

This is especially important to remember in content that involves social selling. Your target audience needs to feel like you “get” them and the only way they can do that is if you write your content in a way that speaks directly to them, in their voice.

Mildred Talabi

Mildred is an author, speaker, and the founder of The Visible Women Tribe.

Stream episode 28 now, or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform below.

Episode transcript

Note: This transcript may contain some minor wording and formatting errors. Apologies in advance!

Todd Nienkerk: Welcome to The Future of Content. I’m your host, Todd Nienkerk. 

Every episode we explore content—its creation, management and distribution—by talking with people who make content possible. Our goal is to learn from diverse perspectives and industries to become better creators. The Future of Content is brought to you by Four Kitchens. We build digital content experiences for ambitious organizations. 

Today, I’m joined by Mildred Talabi, author, speaker, and founder of The Visible Women Tribe. And we’re going to be talking about visibility, self-promotion, writing to specific audiences, a whole bunch of stuff. So welcome to The Future of Content, Mildred.

Mildred Talabi: Thanks for having me today. Great to be here.

Todd Nienkerk: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, let’s start at the top. You are the founder of Visible Women Tribe. What is Visible Women Tribe?

Mildred Talabi: OK, so Visible Women Tribe is a community of women in business whose tagline is, “women who are committed to being seen, heard and remembered for all the right reasons.” So, it basically what it is, is in business, you know, anybody that’s in business listening to this, you know that in business, it can be a lonely journey, you know, especially if you have people around you that are employed and they don’t quite understand exactly what you do in your business. 

So, this community is for women who want that support network while you’re building your business—you want to connect with other women who are like-minded, who are also pursuing the same goals of building what I call a “visible and profitable business.” You know, we primarily use LinkedIn, but it’s also beyond the platform. But you’re just building a business that lasts. So, the visibility side is you can be the greatest, you know, in your business. But if nobody knows about you, then you’re not going to get very far in your business. So, you need to be seen, heard, and remembered for all the right reasons by all the right people. And that’s what our community does. So, we gather women, we have monthly training sessions, we have socials where we get to know each other, but where we also develop on personal and professional level. 

So, there’s a real community and support that we have in the tribe that a lot of the women have actually sort of changed their lives, you know, especially in the whole pandemic that we had where people were missing human contact. So that’s what we do as a tribe. We connect women to other professional women and businesses.

Todd Nienkerk: When you say “remembered for all the right reasons,” what do you mean by that exactly?

Mildred Talabi: So it is you want to be remembered, you know, sometimes, you know, you we basically there are two times that we share experiences, you know, usually when it’s really bad and usually when it’s really good. Kind of if you’re in between no one talks about you, you know, so you don’t just say, “Oh, I had an average meal today at the restaurant.” Nobody ever says that; it’s either it was really bad or it was really good. 

So, we want to be remembered for being really good at what we do. You know, so you have a business and you’re really good at what you do, but you’re not just being really good in secret. You’re really good openly, you know, because I guess we’re going to have to talk about this shortly. But in my previous background, I was a journalist. And one of the things that we did when we were sourcing people to feature as experts and all of that, it wasn’t people get this idea that it’s the person who’s most knowledgeable that gets called to do the interviews on TV and in papers but it’s actually the one who’s most visible, you know, and when you’re visible, your perception as an expert, you know, really increases. 

So you’re remembered for all the right reasons. So that’s what we encourage our ladies in our tribe to do: to be remembered for all the right reasons. That is the reason that you’re brilliant at what you do. But also, people know that you’re brilliant at what you do because you’re not shy about being public with it.

Todd Nienkerk: Not being shy about being public with your knowledge. That’s something that in my career I have observed from people that I’ve worked with, and what struck me about the Visible Women Tribe is obviously the intersection of visibility and women. 

I have worked with some women in my career who have been very hesitant to put themselves out there in terms of content production, whether that’s writing a blog post about something that they’re an expert in or doing a webinar or or even things like, you know, announcing a title change or a new role that they’re taking on. Is this something that in the Visible Women Tribe— Is this something that you are trying to build a support network around? Is this a trend that you’re seeing? And if so, where is that coming from?

Mildred Talabi: Oh, absolutely, it’s a trend. In fact, my work and before I started The Visible Women Tribe— So I do coaching for women in business school, and in working with a number of clients over the years, many times. In fact, it came up time and time again. 

A lot of women are afraid to just show up and be yourself. Here’s what happens when you’re at work. For example, if you have a job title, you know, you can hide behind that job title. So you can show up on LinkedIn as an employee for whichever company that is. And that’s OK. That’s manageable. But when you’re now in business for yourself—especially when you have a business where you’re a coach or a consultant and you’re the face of your company—there’s no hiding. And for a lot of women that I spoke to and that I work with, this is a scary concept. It’s this whole idea of people judging me. You know, what will people think of me, you know? And then there’s the fear of saying the wrong things, you know, because if I say the wrong things then that’s my brand that’s damaged, you know, and then it’s the fear of I don’t want to be too salesy.

I know I’m in business and I need to sell, but I don’t want to be too salesy in terms of my approach. So, a lot of it is rooted around the fear of what other people will say and think about you as you start the invisible. And then also there’s elements of the imposter syndrome that comes into it of “Who am I to be showing up in this way?” 

You know, I mean, I am just and when you add that would just in front of what you do, you minimize your achievements, you minimize everything, you know. So I am just a coach, I am— No, you are not. You are amazing, you know, and unique. And for you to actually serve the people that you started your business for is really vital, that you are visible, because that’s how they will see you and that’s how they will plug into the work that you do. And that’s how they will experience the transformation that you have for them. So, yeah, it’s really important, but it is something a lot of women do struggle with and still do, unfortunately. 

Todd Nienkerk: You mentioned not wanting to be too salesy. That’s something that I hear people say a lot—it’s something I say a lot myself. “We don’t want to be salesy,” right? What does “being salesy” mean to you?

Mildred Talabi: So, yeah, I’ve said it myself in the past many times. It’s like, “No, I don’t want to be salesy.” You don’t want to be that person. And if you’re on, let’s take, LinkedIn, for example, I think pretty much if you went onto LinkedIn for any period of time, you would have a message at some point from somebody asking you to either buy something, or connect with them, or something that you have not asked for. You know, you’re like, I don’t know you. I don’t want what you’re selling and you haven’t even done a profile to see if I’m the right person, you know?

Todd Nienkerk: “I’m going to be in your city in a week, and I’d love to have coffee.” I’m like, first of all, we’re still in a pandemic. So, no, I’m not going to be doing that. Secondly, I don’t know who you are.

Mildred Talabi: Exactly. Exactly. So I think all of us are secretly afraid of being that person. You know, we don’t want to be that person. So sometimes we go the other way round, way too much where it’s you. 

Practically, a lot of these ladies that I work with, they don’t talk about their business. They kind of assume that people will go to the trouble of, “OK, if I keep sharing good content and being helpful, then people will somehow know that I can help them in this area without me actually directly asking for the business at any point.”

Todd Nienkerk: So that’s really interesting what you just said. But let me make sure that I understand that. In other words, content marketing from the perspective of getting on, whether it’s social media, LinkedIn, or something to promote your business through just being helpful in sort of a passive way, which is a content marketing strategy that lots of people employ. It sounds like you’re saying that that’s not really enough, that there’s something else that you need to do. 

There’s another step that you need to take beyond that to really make your business successful. What is that step? What’s that next thing that you need to do beyond more passive content marketing? We’re just putting good ideas and advice out into the world.

Mildred Talabi: Yeah, absolutely. I do think there’s another step. So it starts with sharing useful, helpful, valuable content, you know, to your ideal market. But then at some point, you have to ask for the sale. You have to let them know that, “Actually I have a service related to all this great, wonderful content that I put out.” So I say this: I have a thing in terms of when it comes to the content that you post on LinkedIn, especially the “three pieces of content,” is what I call it. 

So number one is professional content. So you want to be always posting professional content, which is exactly what we described. So it’s was content that demonstrates your expertise is content that helps people, salespeople. Then you also want to be putting out personal content. So this is content that allows people to get to know you as a person when you do content marketing, because that ties in with the whole idea of social selling. You know, and in social selling, when people know you, like you, and trust you, then it’s so much easier for them to buy from you once they’ve bought into you. So the personal content helps because it helps people to get to know you as a person. “Who is Todd?” You know, there’s loads of other digital marketers, but Todd’s being so different from the rest of them. So the personal content is second, and then the last type of content is promotional content. So if you run a business at all, you must do promotional content. And this is where you’re asking for the sale, whether it’s “join my newsletter,” whether it’s “buy my book,” you know, whether it’s “get on the phone with me to talk about working with me.” But you must be doing that as well, giving people the opportunity to buy into your services. Otherwise you’re doing yourself a disservice and your audience, because they don’t know how they can work with you.

Todd Nienkerk: Interesting. So to summarize then, the three types of content that you recommend that people produce: Professional content, which is helpful, advice oriented, demonstrating expertise and knowledge. Personal content—letting people get to know you as a person. This then contributes to the sales aspect in terms of social selling. And then finally, promotional content—particularly important if you run a business. This is the ask. This is “subscribe to the newsletter,” “buy my product,” “attend my webinar,” things like that. In terms of a mix of these, then how would you want to split those up? Pretty equally? Is there something that you want to weigh more heavily or less so? Like what do you recommend?

Mildred Talabi: I go for a 60-20-20 principle on this as well. And I also use that as an audience for them. But that’s a different conversation. About 60-20-20, and your 60 percent— 60 percent be in the professional content. So this is the main bulk of what you produce. You’re not asking all the time. And then 20 percent personal, you know, so people don’t want to know everything. They don’t want to know what you ate for lunch. You know, every day we don’t want to know. You know, so, and then the other 20 percent, the promotional. So it’s not all the time. 

If we look at it like this, if you’re somebody who posts, let’s say, three days a week on LinkedIn, and this is kind of the schedule I tend to advise my clients to do anyway, post three days a week, and that’s and sustain that on the long term. That’s the minimum for visibility—three days a week. So let’s say you post on three days a week, and it’s Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Two of those days, you know, professional content. And then the other day, you can mix that between personal and promotional. You can rotate that every other week if you wanted to. 

So if you want a clean way of doing it, that’s one method that could work. So it’s professional, professional, personal. And then the following week, professional, professional, promotional—you know, so you can alternate it like that if you want to. But that generally gives a good balance of just seven most of the time. But you’re also not just letting your business operate passively.

Todd Nienkerk: Got it. Well, let’s take a quick break, and when we return, we’ll continue talking with Mildred about visibility—what that means, why it’s beneficial, how you can do it. 


Todd Nienkerk: Hey, everyone. We’ll get back to the episode in a moment. I wanted to quickly tell you about Four Kitchens. You may know that Four Kitchens creates websites, but we do so much more than that. Our team of Web Chefs can help you make better use of your content, scale your web team, and create world-class digital experiences. 

For example, we’re in the middle of helping a university build a digital publishing platform that will power more than a thousand websites. 

To find out more about how Four Kitchens can help, visit us at Now back to the episode. 

[end break]

Todd Nienkerk: Welcome back to The Future of Content. Our guest today is Mildred Talabi, LinkedIn visibility coach and founder of the Visible Women Tribe. 

So when we left off, we were talking about your content strategy mix—using a blend of professional content, personal content, asking for the sale in your content as well. I’d like to talk a little bit about the experience of writing about and to a business audience. So you have a professional history doing this as a journalist, as a writer. You are now working directly with businesspeople and professionals. What do you think some people are doing well in the space of business writing? And where do you think maybe some people make mistakes?

Mildred Talabi: Oh, yes, so business writing— If you think of it as business right on, then immediately this is where a lot of people make mistakes from the beginning. And so they go in with the idea of, “OK, this is business, I must be formal.” You know, it must be very official suited. And how that translates often—not always—and the content is dry, is not appealing, and people don’t really want to read it. So it’s very mechanical. It’s all about what we do in our business. “This is how we do what we do in our business.” So I think what really works well is when you remember that you’re speaking to people, you know, and when you write content that’s specifically addressed for your target audience. 

So you’re speaking to the needs that they have. You speak into the problems that they’ve faced and you bring your solutions, but you’re speaking not as you, but as them, you know, and that’s really important. The vocabulary that you use, the way that you speak, it needs to be words that your target audience can resonate with, because that’s how you build connection and that’s how you build that relationship. If you’re doing a social selling content, market in a way where people really want to get into that. They have this feeling that this person gets me, you know. Yeah. From reading your content that, “Yeah, Todd gets me,” because you’ve written it in a way that it speaks directly to them in their voice. And that’s the best kind of writing. That was where you’re combining that whole thing of your speaking, not as you, not the formal businessperson, especially people who get on LinkedIn and LinkedIn as a professional platform icon. It’s not Facebook, so I must be like this. Now it’s OK to be human and speak to your audience as a human being.

Todd Nienkerk: So vulnerability—sounds like that’s pretty key.

Mildred Talabi: Yeah, that’s that’s that’s important when you’re doing the personal content, you know, but it’s again— It’s something I say. I never sell my vulnerability and I don’t use it. I don’t trade it for reactions or likes or anything. Sometimes people do that because they know it works. You know, they share a personal story and it gets people going. And it’s like, yes, that is growing your audience. But if that’s your strategy, it’s not a sustainable one. You know, because you still run out of things in your life to be vulnerable about. But it’s just really kind of using it. Now I know it’s easier said than done, but not being afraid to be vulnerable when it calls for it. And it has to go for— It’s not just for the sake of “I’m going to do this.” And I have seen people posting where it feels like you’re just sharing this just so you can get the attention and go viral or grow your audience. And a perceptive audience can see through that. So, yes, vulnerability is an aspect. But even when you’re doing the professional content, it’s just the way that that’s words and phrases. And don’t use 10 words when you can say it in three, for example, you know. It’s just, you know, bear those kinds of things in mind.

Todd Nienkerk: Right. Right. It’s interesting to hear that vulnerability is good to an extent, and that perhaps one of the biggest drawbacks of really leaning on that kind of strategy too hard is that you just run out of things to be vulnerable about. I think that’s a really interesting point. And I also have seen on places like LinkedIn content that seems to, you know, go viral or get a lot of attention involves a lot of really personal storytelling. And I have to admit that sometimes maybe I’m just feeling a little jaded in the moment or something, I have to wonder like, are they just— Are they being like that? There’s a difference between being genuine and being vulnerable, right? It seems like the key is to be genuine in what you do and in being genuine, you will deploy vulnerability only when it’s actually useful to what you’re trying to accomplish, not just for yourself, but for your audience, whether that’s clients, or customers, or constituents, or whatever.

Mildred Talabi: Yeah, absolutely. It needs to be. It needs to be for the purpose of helping others, you know. Or maybe even for your own release or whatever, but just not for the purpose of likes and shares and going viral and all that, because that stuff will disappear overnight. Someone else will put out a post that’s more viral than yours, and then you’ll be quickly forgotten. So it’s not worth it to try and chase after those things in your content.

Todd Nienkerk: Are there other mistakes that you see people commonly make when they’re talking about themselves, or trying to be visible about themselves or— I guess what’s the right way to say that? When they’re trying to be visible in order to accomplish some goal, whether it’s personal or professional, or trying to support their business, or whatever. What other common mistakes do you see people make in producing this kind of content, whether it’s written or audio or video or whatever?

Mildred Talabi: Yeah, so another mistake that I see is when you’re not using content that suits you, that’s not in your style. Now, there’s a difference between coming out of your comfort zone, because, for example, I’m a natural writer. You know, I’ve written from the time I was little. My background is writing, journalism, and such. So writing comes naturally to me. That’s my first thing. But yeah, I do a lot of videos now. You know, I produce a lot of video content and the journey to get in there was odd, especially if I’m an introvert as well. You know, and it’s like, I’m like, oh, no, no, no videos. No, no, no. That’s not my thing. I’m behind-the-camera type of person. I’m busy, you know. But so there’s— I had to lea\r\n \to adapt to video because video— And just to go off track for a little bit. 

Video is a powerful form of content. It’s really a great way to connect and engage with people, you know, with your target audience in your content. Live video is even better. You know, like LinkedIn Live, for example, going live is even better. But that aside, it’s how I love even though now I do videos very comfortably and I love them, I still know that writing is my predominant form of expression. So I do slightly more writing than I do video. And that suits me, you know, that suits me. So it’s really when you produce content that’s in line with your style, your personality—you’re comfortable with what you’re comfortable with, not just your comfort zone. There’s a difference. Don’t stay in your comfort zone, but be comfortable, then your content translates a lot better.

So I’ll give you an example. I don’t know if you’ve seen— I don’t know if you’re on Instagram. Or TikTok, for example?

Todd Nienkerk: Like I used to be I have a real issue with Facebook in general. So I got fed up with it and I just left all their platforms. But I’m very aware of it. And I wish there was a way to interact with Instagram without having to interact with Facebook. But anyway, that’s—

Mildred Talabi: I hear you. Right. Right. You know very well when Instagram, Instagram reels were first came into— In fact, they’re still happening now— But you had all these videos where everybody’s kind of pointing, you know, no sign or music. 

And it’s just you point and the word appears and you point and people are in awkward dancing. You know, for some people who originated that great—it looks great. And then you see some people doing it and you feel for them. I’m like I’m literally cringing because I know this is not you, but you feel like you have to do this because this is the content that is popular, but it’s having the opposite effect, because it’s like that is not you at all.

Todd Nienkerk: Because it’s not genuine.

Mildred Talabi: It’s not genuine, you know.

Todd Nienkerk: Right. It’s definitely visible in the sense of “here it is.” Right. It’s vulnerable in the sense that you’re doing something that you normally probably wouldn’t do and is maybe a little awkward or uncomfortable to you, but it’s not genuine. So it doesn’t read well.

Mildred Talabi: Well, that’s it. And I think that word and it’s an overused word, but “authentic” is the word I think we’re looking for here. You know, you have to be visible in a world that is authentic to who you are as a person, you know, to your brand, to your personality. 

When you do that, then it translates well, then your audience picks it up and then you feel comfortable doing it. And therefore, it’s sustainable, because if it’s not comfortable, unless you’re one of those people who wants to talk to yourselves and you’re going to go out every day, even though you hate it, it’s not going to be sustainable in the long run. So it’s about marrying all of those things together.

Todd Nienkerk: Why do you think video is such a powerful form of content? What makes it so?

Mildred Talabi: Video is where you can get lost in translation with text, so I can write something one way and you read it a completely different way. You know, that is harder to do with video. 

Todd Nienkerk: The curse of email.

Mildred Talabi: Exactly. Exactly. Or, those text messages before emojis came along, when you couldn’t add smiley faces. So, yeah.

Todd Nienkerk: Thank you, emojis, for inventing an emotional language.

Mildred Talabi: Exactly. That saved most of us from sending the wrong message, you know. So that was the thing. And video allows you to communicate in a way where all the nuances, the body language, the expressions—all of that can be read—not just the words that’s coming out of your mouth. So in that way it is powerful as a form, but also as a form of connection. 

When you see somebody in video, you see them again, like you are watching your favorite TV show. And after a while, and then when the character dies, you’re crying. I don’t know. Maybe that’s just me, you know. You know, because you know, because you’re really connected with them. And that’s the power of video. When you see somebody again and again on video and you hear them and you see the body language, and they’re smiling, you feel like you get to know them. And then when you know them, again, we’re back to this whole “know me, like me, trust me” aspect of social selling. Then when you know somebody it is easier to like them and trust them, and then once you buy into them, it is much easier to buy from them. So video is powerful in that way, building those connections and relationships.

Todd Nienkerk: You said that was “know me, like me,” and what was the third?

Mildred Talabi: Trust me. Trust me. Yeah, the three pillars of—

Todd Nienkerk: I’m writing them down. Yeah, OK. Three pillars of social selling.

Mildred Talabi: I wish I made that up, I did, and, by the way, it is a wonderful thing.

Todd Nienkerk: I’m still learning stuff. This is great. Where do you see the future of visibility-based content and expression heading?

Mildred Talabi: That’s a really good question, and what I see is and it is what is happening, all the platforms are kind of merging. You know, so they’re borrowing from each other. So are you on Clubhouse? Did you jump on the Clubhouse thing?

Todd Nienkerk: I didn’t. I did not jump into it, but I heard about it. Yeah. So if you could maybe provide a short explanation of that for listeners who aren’t familiar.

Mildred Talabi: Ok, so Clubhouse is an audio-based social media platform. Audio only. Literally the way it works, you walk into rooms called “hallways” and people are having conversations in there. You can just drop in and listen or you can participate, you know, by raising your hand to speak in a small enough room. But it’s just different conversations going on 24/7, all the time, by audio. And it’s not recorded. So as you get it, then you miss it. If you miss it, you miss it. If you are there, you’re there. So this is— It’s that. When did it officially start? The last year. 2020. What are we, 2021 now? So 2020. You know, so towards the end of 2020. 

So I remember I jumped on Clubhouse around Christmas last year and I loved it. You know, initially I loved it because I’m a big audio consumption person, I love podcasts. So if you like podcasts, you would like Clubhouse to a certain extent. So anyway, what’s happening is so, Clubhouse has this audio element. And because it did that, Twitter went on and they didn’t want to be left behind. And they created a space where you can have the audio of it. LinkedIn are planning their own version of audio. You know, so it’s releasing a version of audio. And then another trend as well. So for a TikTok, for example, I was one person— I was like, I’m not— No way. I’m not doing those silly videos. That’s not me. I am now; I’m on TikTok, you know, and the reason I’m on TikTok is not to build an audience there, but because of the video-editing facilities.

Now, one of the LinkedIn top VP people kind of said about how TikTok videos are making an appearance on LinkedIn, and a very welcome appearance. And it’s this whole merging of platforms where if you want to be visible, it’s not just enough to just stick to one form of content anymore and be like, OK, I’m just going to write everything on one platform and stick to one platform forever. That’s no longer enough. It’s now about mixing, because the audience, the way we consume content as an audience is changing continuously. 

New things are coming into trends. Instagram, which was originally a photo platform, said a few months ago that “we’re no longer about photos, we’re about videos now.” You know, so as these companies are adapting their platforms, which we are all sitting on and we’re using, then it’s really important for us to adapt our content accordingly while still maintaining that authenticity. 

You know, I have to add, but it’s just the trend that is happening is a merging of all these different platforms, borrowing from each other, whereby the mix of content that we now see on our feed, whatever platform we choose, looks similar across the board. Even someone as professional as LinkedIn, has got more of the TikTok-style videos and stories and all of these things that usually the platforms are known for. So I would say get on board, you know, don’t fight it, get on board as much as you can.

Todd Nienkerk: Embrace these new media and platforms and ways of expressing yourself and getting content out into the world while being authentic and not just turning yourself into a meme or doing some kind of reaction video or whatever. OK, good advice. I’m curious, you mentioned— Clubhouse was an interesting— I guess I wound up reading more like think pieces about Clubhouse and actually participating in Clubhouse and reading about some people’s experiences, there were, I don’t know, kind of maybe early days, and they hadn’t really figured out what was going on. But it seemed like they were, you know, I guess with any platform, there are ugly aspects. But it’s interesting to me that audio is so powerful. And I know the irony in a podcaster saying something like that. I love audio. I love radio—radio is part of what I studied in college. It also amazes me that it’s so popular that like so many people are into it and it seems to pick up momentum wherever it lands. Why do you think that audio is so appealing? What is it about Clubhouse that you feel is, I mean, more effective than how you could maybe spend your time or energy on, say, video or writing? What works about audio for you?

Mildred Talabi: I have to put a little caveat here about Clubhouse, though, that my love affair didn’t last fully. It was OK. I was like about three months. I was all in it. And then I had to take a break. I was working on some projects and I came back. I was like, Oh, I love it as much as I thought. But the reason and the reason I love it as much is that I love audio. I love podcasts. But podcasts, I can control what I listen to, so I can pick my stations and then I can get— OK, I’m going to listen to. And I usually listen when I’m washing up, to be honest, you know? So I’m like, OK, I’m going to listen to this while I’m washing up because I want this kind of inspiration. Clubhouse, it’s kind of there’s a lot going on. Just like as you log on to LinkedIn, for example, and there’s loads of things on your feed. Imagine the audio equivalent of that. There’s just loads of rooms, you know.You know, there are lots of conversations and you’re jumping in and there’s a lot like this. And at the beginning, some are halfway through, some are about to end, some might be starting. So that kind of got me as a listener, it got really noisy for me quickly. And I was like, OK, this is not, you know— But audio as a device, I think is similar to video in terms of when you hear somebody’s voice again, you’re getting to know them, the nuances. You can even hear laughter and voices. So, again, it’s building that relationship in a way that is similar to video, kind of takes it to the next level because you can see them, too. Well, audio, I think, is a close second in that sense and building that connection and relationship with people.

Todd Nienkerk: It’s also a way to— So the thing that I loved about radio is the concept of theater of the mind, and I guess the most obvious example of this would be old radio dramas, radio plays, you know, from the “golden age of radio” But even more recently, series like Homecoming and other dramatic podcasts released by, you know, all kinds of different podcast networks that are voiced by actors. Right. These are works of fiction and performance. 

You get to sort of invent, you know, through soundscape and other things. You get to invent the picture in your head. So it’s this idea of like, well, I don’t really know what that person looks like exactly, but I have a picture. It’s like when you read a book, you have a picture of somebody. So theater of the mind, it sort of has that— It has that sort of cognitive imaginative aspect that reading does, but it also doesn’t require you, like reading and like video, to be looking at something. Yeah. So you can, like you said, listen to podcasts while you’re washing up, like people listen to podcasts while they’re driving or commuting or not wanting to have to stare at a screen like they already do, you know, 10 hours a day or whatever. I ran into this at work because we do so many video calls, right, like it’s just Zoom all day. So it’s just video, video, video. And that’s content—meetings are content, right? And I’ll have to admit that like one out of every 30 or 40 meetings that I attend, where the other it’s just me and another person, and that person dials in on a phone and I can shut my video off and I can get up and pace back and forth and walk around. That’s like the best call of the week.

Mildred Talabi: Right. I’m with you. I love those. Right. Yeah.

Todd Nienkerk: Yeah. Yeah. So there’s something about audio-only content that’s just like. It has a place, and I feel like we should embrace it more. Yeah. For that reason, because you can get up and walk around and be active and actually pay attention. It’s like the equivalent of sitting in a meeting and doodling. That’s not because you’re not paying attention. It’s because there’s just a different part of your brain that is able to focus more when you’re doing something else that’s visual or physical.

Mildred Talabi: Yeah. You know, I used to get in trouble with my dad for doing that when I was young—doodling during when he was talking. I’m like, I’m listening. If I stop doodling, you know, I’m not actually listening. That’s right. 

Todd Nienkerk: Now, this is proof that I am paying attention. Hey, is this thing that looks like I’m totally checked out?

Mildred Talabi: Yep, exactly. Exactly. But I’m totally with you. And, the funny thing about our audio is as a consumer, I prefer audio to video any day. Hands down. I prefer it as my favorite platform. My favorite form of media, you know. 

But as a content producer, I prefer video in terms of what it does for my business, what it does for the relationships I’m building with people. So that people on the other side are seeing me, especially on my Lives, you know, and I notice because they tell me, you know, and build that connection, which the audience still does, but not quite in the same way. But myself, I love audio and I will not sit and watch a video of someone talking, you know, I might put it on and wash up. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You walk away. Yeah, exactly.

Todd Nienkerk: And then you’re like, oh, I miss something important visually. I need to go back there and hit pause and rewind it. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, that’s another that’s a really good reminder that your personal preferences aren’t necessarily your audience’s preferences and that you should really be thinking not about what you want out of a piece of content necessarily, but primarily what your audience wants. And sometimes that means you’re going to have to hop on a video rather than record a podcast, because that’s how you’re going to be able to reach more of the people you need to reach.

Mildred Talabi: Exactly that, Todd. Exactly that. Yeah.

Todd Nienkerk: Fascinating. Well, thank you, Mildred, so much for joining me today. How can our listeners learn more about you, what you do, Visible Women Tribe. Where should they go?

Mildred Talabi: I think the best place is to find me on my website, which is So that kind of says what it does, what it is, and it’s I’ve got a free video download there as well, where you can learn about how to stop the invisible and to grow your business. You know, but there’s information about the Invisible Woman type on that website as well. But that’s the best place to find me.

Todd Nienkerk: Great. Thank you so much, Mildred. 

And I’d also love to hear from you. Yes, you, dear listener. What do you want to learn about the future of content? Feel free to send show ideas, suggestions or examples of the content you create. 

You can email me at We’re also on Twitter @FoCpodcast. To learn more about four kitchens and how we can help you create, manage and distribute your digital content. Visit Finally, make sure to subscribe to The Future of Content so you don’t miss any new episodes. Until next time, keep creating content!